This clock looks like a normal Seth Thomas chiming tambour clock. But the chime rods are tuned differently than Westminster chime rods, producing what Seth Thomas called “Bugle” chime.

This clock has the Seth Thomas No. 124 chime movement, made from 1924 through 1956.The “Bugle” chime was made only in 1926 and 1927. (Reference: NAWCC Clock & Watch Bulletin, October 2010, page 579)

The case is 9 inches tall and 21 1/8 inches wide. The minute track of the dial is 4 1/2 inches, and the minute hand is 2 5/16 inches long. The dial was originally silvered, but is now polished brass (which is why it doesn’t photograph well).

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The movement has date codes of 38-3 and 10-50, which I can’t explain, as the “Bugle” chime was made in 1926 and 1927. Could these be Seth Thomas repair date codes?

Repair job 6281. The No. 124 movement needs to be carefully repaired to make it reliable. In particular, the bushings must be short enough for the pivots to protrude. I polished the pivots, installed 26 bushings, and tightened the riveting on the strike warning lever. I repaired the outer end of the time mainspring.

The slot in the regulator was too wide, giving the suspension spring too much play. This caused the pendulum to take a very poor motion (not enough swing to be reliable). When I narrowed the slot, the pendulum motion increased drastically! (see video above). But the clock ran too fast, so I installed an adjustable pendulum bob that could be made long enough to regulate the clock (The suspension spring appears to be original).

Pendulum Bob Data:

Original Bob: 3 ounces, Diameter 1 5/8 inches, Length to center 29.5 mm
New Bob: 2.4 ounces, Diameter 1 3/32 inches, Length to center 1 3/32 inches

I repaired this Seth Thomas No. 801 mantel clock. The date June 1889 is on the back door (date code 9881F).

This mantel clock came in 3 different finishes:

• Wood case, adamantine finish;
• Walnut case with ash beryl veneers;
• Oak case with French walnut veneers.

This one is the “Walnut case with ash beryl veneers.”

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The movement is round with loop end mainsprings. It is the forerunner of the Seth Thomas No. 120 movement.

Repair job 6309. This movement has run for many years. The escape wheel teeth were worn too short, and the pallets had grooves worn in them. After some thinking and some luck, I came upon an effective repair method: The pallets are the same as those in the No. 120 and No. 124 movements. The escape wheel teeth are the same also (the wheel spokes are different, but that doesn’t matter). The arbors are different, and they are mounted in the opposite direction. I bought an old No. 124 movement, removed the pallets and escape wheel from their arbors, and mounted them on the arbors of this clock. After setting the pallet depth, the escapement worked like new! (Another repair technique would have been to make new pallets and escape wheel, which would have been time consuming (and very expensive to my customer).

I also polished the pivots and installed 7 bushings.

Here’s a video showing the pendulum arc increasing from minimum to maximum:

Reference: Seth Thomas Clocks and Movements, by Tran Duy Ly.

This electric Seth Thomas mantel clock strikes the hour and half hour on 2 chime rods. The back of the movement has the date code 7110 (October 1971). Seth Thomas quit making their own movements in the mid-1950s, so this movement is from Germany, possibly made by Hermle, who made many movements for Seth Thomas. The capsule motor is from the USA and is the same motor that contemporary Westclox electric clocks use, starting in the late 1950s.

The case is 10.5 inches tall and 4 1/16 inches wide. The dial’s minute track is 4.5 inches diameter.

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This clock shows signs of cost-cutting. The dial is riveted to the metal brackets that attach to the front of the movement. Hex nuts hold the brackets to the movement, but since the dial is riveted on, it is a pain to remove the nuts! (You need to insert a wrench between the dial and the movement.). And the dial mounts to a Masonite board. The steel arbors are nickel or chrome plated. The plating on back of the center arbor had started to flake, causing the c-clip that holds the tension spring to come off. I removed the plating so the tension spring would stay on.

Repair job 6265. The motor was good. I polished the pivots and installed 11 bushings, and removed the nickel plating from the back of the center arbor so the c-clip would stay on while setting the hands.

Movement model number A305-004. The label on the case back has date code 7307 (July 1973). A smaller label has:

CAT: 215
NAME: EXETER-E
MODEL: E538-004

This Seth Thomas drop octagon clock is only 17 1/4 inches tall and 11 3/8 inches wide. The dial is just under 8 inches diameter (many drop octagon clocks have a dial nearly 12″ in diameter.). The case is a dark mahogany color.

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The movement is a variation of the popular No. 89, called the No. 89B. It is an 8-day time and strike clock. The movement has “stop works” to limit the mainspring motion to a portion of its range.

Repair job 6354. I replaced the escape wheel (had some damaged teeth), polished the pivots and installed 15 bushings. When I checked the operation of each pair of gears, I found that T4 and T5 have a rough action. I tested them in the depthing tool and the action is rough at any depth. T3 and T4 are planted too far apart, but this is the original depth so I left it alone.  In spite of this, the clock runs well, and the pendulum takes an excellent motion with the original mainsprings that are 3/4 inch wide and 0.0173 inch thick. I set the motion work to limit the mainspring winding to 1 turn from fully wound. If setup less then this, the springs tend to be unwound too far at the end of the running period.

The minute hand is 3 15/16 inches long, and the dial’s minute track is 6 15/16 inches diameter.

Here’s a beautiful Seth Thomas drop octagon clock in a rosewood veneer case. The clock is 24 inches tall and 16 inches wide. The dial is painted metal. The minute hand is 5 15/32 inches long, and the dial’s minute track is 11 inches diameter.

The clock is time-only (no striking).

Label inside the case

The well-made Seth Thomas time-only movement.

Seth Thomas rosewood drop octagon clock

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Repair job 6237. I polished the pivots and installed 3 bushings. The movement didn’t have much wear.

Mainspring

This clock has a nice, thin original mainspring. It is only 0.0152 inch thick! (compare this to the more usual 0.017 – .018 inch thick). It provides plenty of power to run the clock, reduces the amount of wear, and makes the clock easier to wind. The mainspring is 11/16 inch wide.

American antique clocks in general tend to have mainsprings that are too strong, but this clock is an exception.

I repaired this Seth Thomas Adamantine mantel clock made about 1902. The movement was very dirty, and had a broken time mainspring. Instead of being broken in one place, it was in 22 pieces!

The broken time mainspring – 22 pieces!

Improper cleaning can cause multiple mainspring breaks. Someone may have cleaned the movement without taking it apart. This can leave cleaning fluid on the mainspring. The cleaning fluid little by little eats into the spring, weakening it.

Repair job 6239. I replaced the strike mainspring as well as the time mainspring (given the broken time mainspring, I didn’t trust the strike mainspring to last long). I polished the pivots, installed 16 bushings, and straightened one arbor (gear shaft).

New Mainsprings:

Time: 3/4 by 0.0160 x 120 inches. Timesavers no, 15959 (the new type with a copper rivet).

Strike: 3/4 by 0.0163 by 120 inches. Timesavers no, 15959 (the new type with a copper rivet).

This clock was in pieces when it came into my shop. It had been dropped, crudely repaired, and later dropped again.

My father-in-law Barry removed the excess glue and cleaned the case pieces. He assembled it and touched up the finish. I gave it a top coat of Deft satin lacquer. The new door glass is from Timesavers. The dial was missing, and I found a perfect-fitting Seth Thomas original on eBay.

The movement was filthy and had many problems. I did the following repairs:

1. Replaced the strike mainspring;
2. Replaced the click rivets (for reliable winding);
3. Replaced damaged clickspring;
4. Replaced the wires in four pinions;
5. Straightened the escape wheel teeth;
6. Re-faced the pallets;
7. Polished the pivots;
8. Installed 16 bushings;
9. Replaced the suspension rod

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Repair job 6225. We call this the “hip” movement because of the plate shape. It has 11/16 inch wide loop end mainsprings. The time mainspring is original. Its thickness varies from 0.017 inch to 0.0175 inch. I replaced the strike mainspring with a 11/16 by .0162 by 96 inch No. 175.3 from Mile Hi Clock Supplies. The original strike spring was 0.0181 inch thick and was causing mainwheel tooth wear.

After repair, the strike train squeaked slightly. I cured it by securing the pinion wires in gear S4 with Locktite.

The door glass is Timesavers no. 18236.

This Seth Thomas electric Westminster chime clock was badly worn! I think someone cleaned the movement without taking it apart, and the resulting rust acted as an abrasive, wearing away the arbors (shafts). The photo below shows the mainspring barrels when I received the clock:

I replaced the following badly worn parts: C1 (chime main arbor), S1 (strike main arbor), chime mainspring barrel, strike mainspring barrel, strike mainspring (rusty and broken), T5 and T6 (time gears number 5 and 6). T5 had the tips worn off the teeth, T6 had bad tooth wear.

This clock uses the reliable Sangamo motor. I cleaned and lubricated the motor, and it runs very quietly. See my post Seth Thomas Falcon Electric Clock, Made in 1940 for photos of the Sangamo motor.

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Job 6381. I polished the pivots and installed 20 bushings. This movement is like a Seth Thomas No. 124 movement that is electric instead of windup. The motor continuously winds two small mainsprings, one for the quarter-hour chime, and one for the hour strike. Each mainspring has a brace end that lets it slip around the barrel so it won’t overwind. I adjusted the braces so that the strike mainspring winds 7 turns before slipping, and 6 1/2 turns before slipping for the chime mainspring. Around 6 to 7 1/2 turns is good. If the spring winds fully before slipping (9 or more turns) it will put excessive pressure on the gears.

These old Sangamo motors are great! The only weak point is the wires – the attachment to the coil is fragile on some, and they can break off.

The movement has the date code 1-49 (January 1949).

The Seth Thomas No. 113 Westminster Chime movement was introduced about 1921 and is a large, heavy movement. The number “113″ is usually stamped on the back. These movements are very reliable. Their weak point is the strong mainsprings contained in going barrels. If a mainspring breaks, gear teeth may be damaged, so repairs can get expensive.

I repaired an example called “Chime Clock No. 75″ made about 1921. The movement hadn’t been serviced for years, and the oil was sticky. As I was letting down the time mainspring, I heard a quiet “click” – that sound was the mainspring breaking and tearing 3 teeth from the mainspring barrel. I disassembled and cleaned the movement and sent the barrel to my gear maker for a new gear. I completed the overhaul process (see below) and now the clock runs like new.

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Repair job 6368. Gear T2 needed repivoting, as the breaking mainspring bent its rear pivot. I polished the other pivots, installed 10 bushings, and noticed that the rear pivot on gear C1 had been repivoted in the past. I installed a new time mainspring. I cleaned the chime and strike mainsprings, and they were in good condition.

Here is a Seth Thomas antique oak “kitchen” clock that came into my shop. I did only minor adjustments to it per customer request, but it will need overhauling in the future as there are worn pivot holes. There are lots of these clocks around, and I am showing this one because it has a nice label on the back and a date code.

The back of the clock has a date code and a paper label

The label is No. 298A, used on many clocks of this time, and doesn’t indicate the clock’s model number or name. The label gives directions for the clock, and advertises the Seth Thomas pocket watch with movement No. 260.

Left end of label

Center of label

Right end of label

The date code on the back is 1912G, which means July 1912. The letter stands for the month, where A is January, B is February, etc. Many clocks have the year digits stamped in reverse order, but this one has them in forward order for some reason.

Date code 1912G – July 1912

Date code and part of the label

This clock is very similar to the “College Series – New York” shown in Tran Duy Ly’s book “Seth Thomas Clocks and Movements”, but the base and door glass pattern are different. It has an 8-day time and strike movement and an alarm. The movement model is 89D, 89E or 89F (the letter was stamped several times).

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Job 6242.

Here’s another example of a Seth Thomas electric striking mantel clock that I repaired. This one is dated October 1949 on the movement, and April 1949 on the motor.

This clock is the Lynton Model No. E511-000. The case is mahogany with an inlay strip in front. It is 16 3/4 inches wide and 8 1/8 inches tall. The dial’s minute track is 5 inches outside diameter, and the minute hand is 2 1/2 inches long. This clock strikes the hour and half-hour on a single rod.

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Repair job 6241. The movement is model A300-033 and has a date code 4910 (October 1949). The motor is a General Time Instruments Corp. M4 with a date code of 4   49. I polished the pivots and installed 11 bushings.

Here is a beautiful Seth Thomas walnut-cased shelf clock I repaired. My customer shipped the clock from Alaska to my shop in Indiana for repair without the door and dial, to reduce the chance of damage.

This clock is 22 3/16 inches tall and 12 5/8 inches wide.

This clock was made around 1886. The 8-day lyre movement strikes the hour. This movement has the older time gear train with 4 gears, and a newer design of strike train with 5 gears. It has a strip deadbeat escapement.

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The video below shows the clock striking, and gives a closeup view of the escapement.

Repair job 6338. I polished the pivots, installed 12 bushings, installed new click rivets (to make the winding mechanism reliable), installed new pins in the escape wheel pinion, and straightened the bent arbor on strike gear #2.

This cute little Seth Thomas octagon top shelf clock is only 9 1/4 inches tall and 7 inches wide. The case has mahogany veneer, and the small movement is one-day time only. There is a mirror in the door.

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Repair job 6325. I polished the pivots, installed 6 bushings and replaced the click rivet. The mainwheel teeth have bad wear (about 60% worn away). I installed a new, thin mainspring to reduce future wear. The new mainspring is 5/16 inches wide, 0.0125 inch thick, and 45.3 inches long, part no. PM CS-510 from the P.M. Company. The original mainspring is 0.0187 inch thick. The thin new spring provides plenty of power, and will run the clock for about 48 hours on one winding (the clock is meant to be wound daily).

Here’s a Seth Thomas electric striking clock in a modern style mahogany case. The dial is “skeletonized” so that the wood shows through most of the brass dial. This clock’s case is 8 7/16 inches tall and 14 1/16 inches wide. The minute hand is 2 1/2 inches long.

The motor has the date code 47-10 (October 1947) and the label inside the back door has the date code 47-11 (November 1947).

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The movement has a Sangamo self-starting synchronous motor. The motor drives a reduction gear train which drives the hands, and winds up the strike mainspring. The strike mainspring has a bridle end which slips in the barrel, so the spring winds only the proper amount. This is necessary because the motor is always winding the mainspring. The end should slip when the mainspring is wound 6 to 7 turns.

This movement is very reliable, and will run for years. When it finally stops, there may be severe wear to the pivots or gear teeth. This one stopped because one of the motor wires came off.

Repair job 6256. I tightened the hand-set tension in the center wheel, polished the pivots, and installed 11 bushings. I replaced the motor, and added a terminal strip to reduce stress on the motor wires.

Here is a beautiful Seth Thomas Adamantine mahogany mantel clock. It is a cute little clock with one celluloid half-pillar on each side of the front. It is in excellent original condition. It strikes the hours on a heavy coil gong, and strikes a single note each half hour on the brass bell. It is an 8-day clock and has the popular and reliable 89C movement.

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Repair job 6432. I replaced the click rivets (they were loose). I polished the pivots and installed 18 bushings. The original mainsprings are nice and thin, yet provide plenty of power to operate the movement.

Mainspring Dimensions (these are the original mainsprings):

Time: 3/4 inch wide by 0.0162 inch thick

Strike: 3/4 inch wide by 0.0165 inch thick

I repaired this Seth Thomas electric steeple clock earlier this year. It strikes the hour and half-hour on one rod.

The model number on the back of the case is E503-000. The clock is 14 5/16 inches tall and 9 1/16 inches wide. The dial’s minute track is 5 inches outside diameter, and the minute hand is 2 1/2 inches long.

The movement is model A300-013 with date code 4712 (December 1947).

In this clock, the motor runs the hands and winds up the mainspring that drives the striking. The motor continuously winds the mainspring. The mainspring can “slip” in its barrel so it won’t be damaged by being wound too far. The picture below shows the mainspring when it is out of its barrel.

On the left is the barrel, cover and ratchet. The mainspring with its bridle is on the right. The bridle grips the barrel, but lets the mainspring slip when it is wound tight enough.

Gear T4 had been re-pivoted off-center. I found a used gear with a pivot almost worn off, and inserted a new pivot into the arbor.

I drilled a hole in the arbor and inserted a piece of blued steel wire

I cut the wire to length and finished the pivot

Repair job 6259. I polished the pivots, re-pivoted one pivot and installed one bushing in the motor. The motor’s rotor was wobbly and wouldn’t start running reliably, so I  installed another rotor. Time gear T4 had been re-pivoted off-center, so I installed another gear.

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I recently repaired a Seth Thomas Legacy 2 E electric clock with Westminster chime. This is an older example of the “Legacy” (made in 1953) in a beautiful walnut case with nice figure to it. The dial is made of engraved and silvered brass. The case is 14 3/8 inches tall with handle and 12 1/2 inches tall without handle. It is 10 3/4 inches wide, and the dial’s minute track is 5 3/4 inches outside diameter. The minute hand is 2 7/8 inches long.

The label inside the back door has the date code 5310 (October 1953). The movement’s date code is 52-12 (December 1952).

Seth Thomas Legacy 2 E Electric Chiming Mantel Clock

Pinion side of the M4 motor

Rotor side of the M4 motor

Movement B1752 of the Legacy 2 E

Rear view of movement and chime rods of Legacy 2 E

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Repair job 6385. Movement No. B1752, date code 5212 (December 1952). I disassembled and cleaned the movement. The fan flies (governors for chime and strike) were loose on their arbors, I tightened them to a light tension. Time gear T4 had flat tooth tips, and the pivot had been turned down to 1 millimeter diameter. I replaced this gear with a good used one. I installed 25 bushings.

The motor had wear in the bearings. A replacement motor is available, and I installed one in the clock. It ran but made too much noise because its pinion isn’t shaped correctly. (The motor is quiet running by itself, but noisy in the clock).

The replacement for the M4 motor that is available today. The shape of the pinion teeth make it run noisily in some clocks.

I took the original motor apart and cleaned it. Then I bushed both bearings. I lubricated, reassembled the motor, and put it in the clock, and it ran very quietly!

Disassembled M4 motor. From left to right: the rotor, the bearings and the steel washer that goes between the rotor and the front bearing, and the rotor with its pinion.

Cleaning and Bushing the M4 motor:

1. Drive shaft from rotor (don’t remove gear, it is on too hard). Don’t lose the small steel washer between the rotor and the bearing.
2. Mark the bearings so they can be put back on the correct side of the motor
3. With large punch, drive out the bearings. Push on the rotor side of the motor to drive them out.
4. Clean the rotor, washer and the bearings.
5. File holes in bushings to center them
6. Mount each bearing in the lathe, hand hold the #3 KWM reamer, and turn the lathe by hand to ream the bearing for the bushing. Insert each bushing from the outside end of the bearing.
7. Lightly fit the bearings in the motor and insert the arbor to test alignment and hole size – broach if necessary. (For a recent job I used KWM American system bushings #33535 (bore 1.5 mm diameter 2.7 mm, height 3.5 mm) and they fitted without needing broaching.
8. Final clean the parts.
9. Insert the bearings into the motor. Periodically check their alignment as they are being driven it.
10. Use a syringe to insert XL-Lube or other grease into the motor.
11. Add grease to the recess inside the hub of the rotor. If there is a recess in the front bearing, fill it with grease.
12. Add a bit of oil to each bearing – I use Castrol Syntec 5W-30.
13. Insert the arbor.
14. Install the washer.
15. Drive the rotor onto the arbor.

If the bearings are good, do the following:

1. Drive the arbor out of the rotor (don’t drive it out of the pinion – it is on too tight);
2. Don’t lose the small washer between the rotor and the front bearing;
3. Clean the rotor, arbor with pinion and washer in the cleaning machine;
4. Wipe the oil and grease from the motor bearings, clean with contact cleaner and pegwood.
5. Use a syringe to insert XL-Lube or other grease into the motor.
6. Add grease to the recess inside the hub of the rotor. If there is a recess in the front bearing, fill it with grease.
7. Add a bit of oil to each bearing – I use Castrol Syntec 5W-30.
8. Insert the arbor.
9. Install the washer.
10. Drive the rotor onto the arbor.

Here’s a “banjo” clock made by Seth Thomas in 1949. This one runs on electricity with a synchronous motor. The motor speed is reduced to drive the hands, and the motor also winds up a mainspring that powers the hour and half-hour striking.

I put “banjo” in quotes, as Simon Willard invented and patented the original clock of this style, and called it a “Patent Timepiece” because it was time-only (no striking or chiming). Much later, this style became commonly called “banjo.”

The photo below doesn’t show the finial on the top of the case.

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The movement has the date code 4905 (May 1949). The motor is type M4 by General Time Corporation, which was introduced in 1948. The entire clock was made in USA. Seth Thomas started using German movements in 1956.

Repair job 6457. I polished the pivots and installed 11 bushings. The motor bearings had little wear. I lubricated the motor bearings with Molykote 44 Light by Dow Corning. I installed new movement mounting grommets. Strike mainspring adjusted to wind 7 to 8 turns before slipping.

Seth Thomas Clock Company made many Westminster Chime clocks in the 20th century. Here is a beauty in a tambour case called the “Wickford”, made around 1930. The dial is engraved and silvered brass with applied numerals. The motor is the Sangamo self-starting synchronous motor, a very reliable motor made through the late-1940s.

The case is 20 13/16 inches wide and 10 inches tall. The dial’s minute track is 5 1/2 inches diameter, and the minute hand is 2 13/16 inches from center to tip.

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The motor runs the hands, and winds the strike and chime mainsprings. Slip-clutch (brace) ends on the 2 mainsprings prevent over-winding. The movement is nicely nickel plated.

Repair job 6441. A previous repairer made file marks on the front plate when installing bushings. I polished the pivots and installed 21 bushings. I adjusted the chime mainspring to slip after 7 1/2 turns of winding, and the strike mainspring to slip at 7 turns. I installed new cloth-covered electric cord and a new plug at the end that plugs into the clock.

I recently repaired this Seth Thomas electric steeple clock that was made in 1950. The date code on the bottom of the case is 5010 (November 1950). The date code on the back of the movement is 5004 (April 1950). This clock is 15 1/4 inches tall and 9 1/8 inches wide. This clock is similar to another one I worked on, but the case top is more pointed, making it taller (see Seth Thomas Electric Steeple Clock with Hour and Half-Hour Striking, 1947). This clock strikes the hour and half-hour, and has a movement like the 1947 clock.

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Repair job 6384. I polished the pivots, installed 16 bushings, and replaced the mainspring.